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Minifinity The Classic Mini Forum and Resource | • View topic - HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

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HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Fri 20th Apr 2012, 08:59pm

Hi all, I hope someone can help me . I have a 1996 mini cooper 3i. I noticed after some rain that there was a puddle of water coming through the carpet in the passenger side footwell, I pulled up the carpet and sure enough, water sitting there :( I also saw a slight dribble coming from the carpet on the side just under the door. So thinking it was the door seal that was the cause, I bought a new one, nope, still leaking from that area.After a few more days of raining, mopping up,and keeping that side of the carpet up to try and keep dry, still coming in !
I have a feeling it could be coming in behind the area just above the footwell, as its soaking wet here, after feeling the carpet area there, the dampness does not go very far up only about 3 ins from the floor. But then yesterday, i retrieved a newspaper from behind drivers seat, and it was slightly damp, and to my horror after taking drivers side carpet up it was damp on the metal, :(
I have had the car at a garage, and they poured water over the passenger door, and thats when they saw the water coming thru the bottom of the carpet, thinking it was a door seal. Another thing that puzzles me is when after i mop the water up from the grooves in the footwell, and then drive, it pools again coming from the back into tat groove where the wires lay. My intentions are to take all the carpet and surround out, and then pour water over the windscreen area, thinking and hoping that i see where the leak is coming from, does anybody have thoughts of where it could be coming from? I eagerly await any answers as its given a horrid weather forecast, and I hate to see my otherwise lovely car like this. :(
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby RikWalsh » Fri 20th Apr 2012, 09:48pm

There should be a separate seal where the door check strap should be.. (stops the doos from opening too much)

Be worth a look - for the sake of a couple of quid..




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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Fri 20th Apr 2012, 10:05pm

Thanx rik, will check that out, :)
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby Nozzle » Sat 21st Apr 2012, 08:18pm

Also, look at the seal against the glass, and water can drain in here, go through the door, then out the drain holes at the bottom, it should drain out at a cut-out in the seal, but if this is in the wrong position it just pours into the car. Also, there should be a film behind the door card that stops water pouring in through holes in the door skin.

Thoroughly dry the area with the leak then poof a load of talcum powder in the area and then spray with a hose from the roof and impinging on to the window. If any water is leaking in this way, you'll be able to trace it back where the talc has been washed away. If there is no sign, then spray from underneath. If I were you, pull the carpets up and leave them up until you're satisfied the leaks are cleared up.

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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Sat 21st Apr 2012, 11:38pm

Nobody's asked if you have oversills fitted...

Is this water coming through the crossmember?

It's not uncommon for cars fitted with oversills to fill the sills with water; the only way out then is through the crossmember and hence under the carpet.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby pdaykin » Sun 22nd Apr 2012, 12:48pm

Does it get wet when you simply wash the car ?

If so, my guess is the window seals - I has a similar problem once when I had the rear screen replaced.

If it only gets wet when driving, there is a good chance that it is coming from the floor/wheel arch area. Are the inner sills/floors OK in the rear companion box ?
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Sun 22nd Apr 2012, 03:13pm

Hi many thanks for all your help ,just held a hosepipe on the roof and I found two leaks from the front of the Mini ,Its dripping from under the passenger dashboard and dripping in from the passenger bulkhead, but its pouring in from under were the passenger seat is bolted on "ie the c section" but the rear of this is dry, Ime puzzled by this as the car is rust free .
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Sun 22nd Apr 2012, 03:20pm

asahartz wrote:Nobody's asked if you have oversills fitted...

Is this water coming through the crossmember?

It's not uncommon for cars fitted with oversills to fill the sills with water; the only way out then is through the crossmember and hence under the carpet.

Hi thanks for this , yes the car has had new sills fitted on both sides , if this is the case how do I stop water pouring in from the crossmember ? thanks again asahartz
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Mon 23rd Apr 2012, 06:22pm

Hi all,going back to my problem, if the water is leaking through the bulk head, how do i go about getting it fixed ? and how do you get to the bulk head to have a look to see the damage there ? :? anxiously awaiting a reply, we have had a dry day here, but outlook looks wet :(
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby mickandjo » Mon 23rd Apr 2012, 08:44pm

minimivvie wrote:Hi many thanks for all your help ,just held a hosepipe on the roof and I found two leaks from the front of the Mini ,Its dripping from under the passenger dashboard and dripping in from the passenger bulkhead, but its pouring in from under were the passenger seat is bolted on "ie the c section" but the rear of this is dry, Ime puzzled by this as the car is rust free .


i have the same problem with my project,water in passenger footwell,im guessing that it is coming in from the window seals or which i think is the most likely the water is going into the bonnet on window side and finding its way into the holes that are located in the bulkhead,mine is dry at the top of the footwell but the damp seems too start where the floor bends round too where it becomes flat,used the talc method,works a treat,there are a few holes in the bulkhead which seem too line up too where it is dripping,check these out,hope this helps and you get your problem sorted out

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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Tue 24th Apr 2012, 11:19am

Thankyou for replying Mickey, yours sounds just like my problem. I found a local mini owner on the web and emailed him describing the problem, and his answer was like yours saying check windscreen seal,also check under the bonnetwhere the cables go thru the bulkhead that the rubber grommet around the cables seals up. :?: .Well I hope that this could be the answer under there, the next thing is can you seal these holes in yourself, or is it a garage job, dont want things to get expensive if you can do it yourself.Hope your car is alright Mickey, and I will post my reply when I have a look tonight, thanks again :)
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby mickandjo » Tue 24th Apr 2012, 08:40pm

minimivvie wrote:Well I hope that this could be the answer under there, the next thing is can you seal these holes in yourself, or is it a garage job, dont want things to get expensive if you can do it yourself.Hope your car is alright Mickey, and I will post my reply when I have a look tonight, thanks again


there should be grommits sealing the wires in already but the ones in mine were shot,should be able too buy these somewhere,surely a bit of sealant around them shouldnt do any harm just as a bit of extra protection,good luck and hope you get it sorted real soon
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Tue 24th Apr 2012, 08:56pm

minimivvie wrote:
asahartz wrote:Nobody's asked if you have oversills fitted...

Is this water coming through the crossmember?

It's not uncommon for cars fitted with oversills to fill the sills with water; the only way out then is through the crossmember and hence under the carpet.

Hi thanks for this , yes the car has had new sills fitted on both sides , if this is the case how do I stop water pouring in from the crossmember ? thanks again asahartz


Oversills are often known as "car killers". The problem is when they are fitted incorrectly with a continuous seam weld - there should be vents left in the bottom seam to let water out - this is how the original narrow sills are designed. What happens in this case is that the sill fills up with water - often there's a gap at the bottom of the A-post below the door hinges - and the only way out is through the crossmember, as you are now finding.

The only long-term solution is to remove the oversills and fit proper sills, but in the short term you may be able to grind a bit of the seam away and open out a vent at each end of the sill to release water.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Wed 25th Apr 2012, 09:15pm

Thankyou for your helpful reply. Not a good day for my mini today with all this rain :( .Got in it from work and yes there it was a pool of water in the footwell groove, :evil: I had someone look with a torch into were the airvent is on passenher side where I saw drips coming in and he said it looked clean. He also took the carpets up behind the passenger seat, and all from the top,and to the bottom was dry, until you got to the cross member , and there was a pool of water in the groove, and the carpet bit on the cross member at the bottom was wet. Now is this the water from the front swishing backwards, and forewards when i am driving, or coming from somewhere else ??? I can mop it up at the front, then drive abit and its there again, this is really getting to me now, all I want to do is enjoy my car.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Wed 25th Apr 2012, 09:35pm

I was speaking to a Mini specialist at a local garage tonight, and he recommended drilling a hole in the "humps" of the oversills. That will help allow water to drain.

I'd suggest also trying to seal where the water gets in - my guess is the bottom of the a-pillar below the door hinges - I'd clean it out well and use Tiger Seal (which I do when I'm restoring a car anyway) in the space at the bottom behind the A-panels.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Thu 26th Apr 2012, 10:47pm

Thankyou for those suggestions, I looked at the door hinges, and the rubber seals on the actual door, they look whitish, and sticky. are they meant to be like this?, or do you think they need replacing ?
You see, I know were the water is coming out, but buggered if I know were its coming in. Again I checked under the bonnet, and looked at the bulkhead were the wires go, and all along there, and it was dry, and this was checked whilst it was raining. I was told to start by taking the windscreen out :?: as it was around this area when I hosed water in, that I saw the leaks coming in under the dash under the airvent, and also under the bulkhead when I stripped the carpets away, it was running down behind the wires.
I was told if I took the screen out, I might find a hole there etc. However it wont be me taking the screen out :roll: not that clever. I long to be able to put a smiley face on this site saying "alls well" yipee!!!!!
Its so frustrating, cos both footwells wet, tho passenger side a lot worse, also, wet behind drivers side, and back , and over the cross member............... :(
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby mickandjo » Thu 26th Apr 2012, 11:21pm

minimivvie wrote:However it wont be me taking the screen out not that clever.


taking the screen out is easy,peel out the filler strip then just apply some pressure too the top left of the screen from inside of car and it will just pop out the ease it out all way round.getting it back in is a bit of a sod though but i managed it.just need too take care.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Fri 27th Apr 2012, 12:14am

mickandjo wrote:
minimivvie wrote:However it wont be me taking the screen out not that clever.


taking the screen out is easy,peel out the filler strip then just apply some pressure too the top left of the screen from inside of car and it will just pop out the ease it out all way round.getting it back in is a bit of a sod though but i managed it.just need too take care.
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Thanx mickey, is the filler strip the metal surround bit on the screen, or the rubber bit :?
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Fri 27th Apr 2012, 05:18pm

The filler strip is the silver (or black) bit in the middle of the rubber; it's actually plastic and is a locking strip. You will need a new one (about £3) when you put it back in even if the seal itself is good enough to re-use, and you will need the special tool to refit the locking strip; it's hard enough with it but impossible without.

The whitish sticky stuff round the seals & hinges suggests someone has sprayed it with a nasty spray sealer or even spray grease; I'd clean all that off.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Sun 29th Apr 2012, 02:13pm

Thanx Asahartz, I will take that on board, and I will wash that sticky stuff off the hinges and the rubber seals,.I am meeting up with a local mini club that I have found on the web, and hopefully one od the members will pin point my leak, and point me in the right direction what to do, and where to go to get it done, Cos I feel I need to get it done asap, as its raining here every day, I dont have a garage, and having to mop out regulary every day, I know the the water is going to cause damage.Think I am going to invest in a Haynes manual for future ref, might help this damsel in distress, in the future !!!!! :roll:
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Sun 29th Apr 2012, 11:16pm

Put your location in your profile; somebody on here may be able to help directly too.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Mon 30th Apr 2012, 11:28pm

Hi thanx I will, but will put it here too, I live in Bridlington East Yorkshire :P
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby cooper5007 » Sun 13th May 2012, 11:15pm

have a look at the door seals as I have water comes down the seal and runs over the seal at the bottom into my mini. A friend of mine had the same problem he punched some holes in the foam part of the seal (the part that seals up against the door) at the bottom to allow the water to run out.
There is already 2 holes in that part of the seal but the water does not always get to that part before it flows over into the mini
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby Nozzle » Mon 14th May 2012, 08:20am

Yeah, the cut-out in the seal must align with the drain hole in the bottom of the door - and it this is the route where water is getting in then the inside of the door is likely to be soaked/rotten and the outside seal needs attention (can just be bent closer to the glass with the window wound down).

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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Tue 15th May 2012, 05:28pm

Thanx Nozzle and Cooper 5007, that all fits for the leak in that area, as i was sat today in my car and it was raining, and I was watching water coming in at the bottom of the door where you described,.
The holes in the rubber seal match up with the groove bit on the metal bit of the door, but when the door is shut water comes in from there :evil: .Also, because I have my carpet up on the pass side, I noticed water in the footwell channel, dry from the x member as i stuffed SPAM SPAM SPAM roll down there, and dry from the bottom of bulkhead, so I noticed that the only way it was coming from was from the floor where there was a crack in the floor, looks like it has been previously patched? welded ? It hadnt run from the door seal, cos it was dry on the floor from there. I pressed on the crack and bits of wetness was seeping in :( .God it sounds more like a sieve than a car :shock: .However I have booked it in at the garage on thurs, to get it on the ramps and have a good look underneath. I will mention the door seals too, and they can have a look, but I think you have hit the nail on the head with that one, Cheers lads, and I hope I have explained things ok, as I dont understand the technical stuff :roll: . thanks again :)
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby Zippyrude » Tue 15th May 2012, 05:35pm

if the floor has the soundproofing then it will hide any holes in the floor and cracks.

Do yourself a favour and see if you can peel away some of the soundproofing from the areas that the water leaked from.... better still post a picture and we can have a mooch...
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Tue 15th May 2012, 10:15pm

And, as I posted in the "wet feet" thread, when oversills are welded along the bottom edge, and the soundproofing not cleaned away and the burned metal painted, then the floors rust under the soundproofing, exactly as my Sky has. Look at the bottom centre of this pic, taken only 10 days ago.

Image

This is like this the whole length of the car, and I'll need a 1/4 floor + inner sill to replace it all. (For now it has been patched and it's passed the MOT!)

Chip away the soundproofing with a hammer & chisel (or screwdriver at a push!) You may well find your leak. Paint and seam sealer may give a temporary cure, but the only long-term solution is to cut out the rust and weld it. Like me, you'll probably need floor sections and new sills.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Tue 15th May 2012, 10:48pm

Thankyou so much Zippyrude, and Asahartz most helpful. Yes, the corner of my car is similar to yours, but what is exactly the same is the soundproofing, I didnt know thats what it was :roll: , When I described it as looking like patched up or welding mark, it wasnt at all it was the soundproofing. Well, as I said when I press on the edges of the soundproofing after it has rained wetness comes up through these.Seems like I am getting somewhere now, even though its not good :( .So, will all this be apparant when the car is up on ramps ? Could the leak that comes from the x member be due to water in the sills or getting in somewhere else ?, and the leak coming in from the corner of the dash, and running down the metal bit onto the floor , where is that coming in ?. I would put some pics on but dont know how to go about it :roll: . Sorry about this, you must think I am from another planet #-o Thankyou for the pic, it really does help, kind regards
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby Zippyrude » Tue 15th May 2012, 11:03pm

use photobucket to load the pictures to then link them here

water can come from many places, the windscreen seal is common if it is running down from the windscreen area.

if you have 'oversills' they can collect water which can seep up into the floor.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Wed 16th May 2012, 12:05am

Thanks zippyrude, kind regards :)
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby jo » Wed 16th May 2012, 10:36pm

Having spent 18 months slowly sorting out my Cooper and finally finding the water still seeping out from under the seat, the best and cheapest advice (I think it was from Zippy) was to have a small section of the oversills ground away to create the allow the water to drain out. Like you described - once the car had been dried a bit more would appear from under the seat . . . not any more!

I have just put my carpet back in after it has sat in the garage for almost two years - such comfort!

Good luck - but it really is worth doing.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Wed 16th May 2012, 11:25pm

Hi Jo, and thankyou for your reply. You must be thrilled to bits now that you have been able to put your carpets back down, and you dont have the dreaded leaks anymore :D . This mini is my 4th, and its the only one that has had leaks :x .My third one went through a large flood at york one year, we were stationary as the cars in front were not going anywhere !, and not a drop of water got in :lol: No trouble afterwards too. :rock: , Anyway back to my sieve,she is going to the garage tomoz, and up on the ramps to have a good look, and I am going to mention the advice that I have recieved on here. Will let you know how I get on, cheers again :)
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Thu 17th May 2012, 10:52pm

Hi All, Had mini at the garage today as mentioned on the last post, up on the ramps, and there was nothing to see whatsoever underneath, all intact. One of the garage men sat inside whilst another poured water over the pass side door where I saw it coming in at the bottom from the seal and into the car, sure enough in it came. After further inspection it was found that whoever had removed the door previously hadnt fitted it back properly, and I can only explain that the door fits too far inwards. Looking at the drivers side the door lines up perfectly. The car soon filled up, and the channel in the footwell was puddling too.Never would have thought that water from this door would spread so much into the car. Water wasnt poured anywhere else on the car apart from the window, so it couldnt be getting in anywhere else :roll: Anyway its booked in tomoz to get door done, so massive fingers crossed that once the door is done thats it :)
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Thu 17th May 2012, 10:58pm

At least you've found it! The doors are designed with drain holes, as the basic design can never keep all the water out, but the drain holes often get clogged or even sealed over.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Thu 17th May 2012, 11:16pm

Hi Asahartz, thanks for your reply, yes, I really hope now thats that. I will let you know tomoz, The door is deffo too far inwards, even I could see that once it was pointed out, there was even play on the door, when moved up and down. So we will see tomoz, kind regards
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby Nozzle » Fri 18th May 2012, 06:52am

There are two drain holes in the bottom of the door, and these need to align with the cut-out in the rubber seal and the "dimple" in the doorway step. Use tape on the bottom of the door to indicate where the holes are, shut the door - place more tape on the step that aligns with the tape on the door, then open the door and adjust the seals so the cut-outs align with your tape. The wate dribbles out the hole then instead of dripping through the gap in the seal, it accumulates and floods into the car. You should also wind down the window and adjust the outside weather sheild by bending it inwards slightly.

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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Fri 18th May 2012, 11:37pm

Hi Nozzle, Thankyou for your post most helpful. The mini went in the garage today, and the outcome was different than i thought it would be. The mechanic said he was going to try something else, he took the door card off, and that was damp also under the plastic sheet was too. So he put duct tape over the holes etc, and then ran water from the outside, and hey presto no leaks coming into the door where i had previously seen it, though i did see a leak coming through from the door seal where it was spilling over into the back of pass side, So he put more tape over some other holes, and did the water test again, and that had sealed it, so put the door together again. The water that was coming in from the corner of were the air vent is, and trickling down the metal side and on to the floor, that was leaking in through the check arm seal, the one that is on the door frame, it was pointed out that it was buggered, so i am ordering one tomoz from minispares. So HOPEFULLY, the leaks have been sorted. I will know in the morning as right now its raining, but I dont want to raise my hopes. , I just darent........Will let you know tomoz night, kind regards
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Sat 19th May 2012, 10:02pm

grrrrrrrrrrrrr :evil: . thought it too good to be true :( , cant believe this at all !!!!!!. feel so down about this. Got to my mini this morning, after a night of rain fall, and there it was again the leak coming in from the door seal, same place, really thought it had been sorted. Not only that, but a pool in the car, in the channel which goes under the x member. The pool couldnt have come from the water coming in at the door seal as it would have to go over a bump, and there wasnt a trail. However when I had the hose put on after the door was done as mentioned in my last post, after 5 mins, water would pool on the floor, even tho at that time, no water was coming in at the seal. The cracked area after the soundproofing on the floor when i press it water comes up a little, How the heck is it coming up from there, and why is it wet from the x member ?. Feel like giving up :(
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby asahartz » Sat 19th May 2012, 11:17pm

I think it's most likely that the oversills are filling with water, which is why it will be coming in from where the floor has rotted along the lower seam. As Jo has posted, you could get some vents cut into the sills as a temporary fix, but in the long term you are going to need, like me, new sills and floor repairs.
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Re: HELP ! rain water leaking in !!!!!

Postby minimivvie » Sun 20th May 2012, 12:02am

Thanx asahartz, i think you are right, I have been told i havent got oversills, but i think i may have. There is deffo some welding been done on the part just below the carpet edge from the door, so i am going to get back in touch with garage on monday. God, this is so annoying, and i may pick away at the soundproofing and see if there is a hole or two, will let you know on monday, kind regards
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